Looking for Guidance from you 450 guys

T-R-E-V

It’s time to move up to 450 size helicopter, as there is so many on the market today could I draw off the knowledge of the 450 pilots here.

I know T-rex is probably the best 450 you could buy, but in your opinion what order would you put my list and why,

Blade 450 3D RTF

STORM 450 Glass Fiber Deluxe Edition (RTF)

Titan 450 V2 6 CH RC Helicopter RTF

Thank You Trev.

tombo242 · Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 3:36 am Post subject:

Sorry Trev,

I wouldn't buy any of them.

My first choice in helis would be to build from a kit. That way you really know what has gone into it it and how you are going to repair it.

.

RTF is not the way that I would recommend, I tried it and believe me - building is best.

Tom.

T-R-E-V · Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 7:47 am Post subject:

Tom,

Of all the people I would have thought you would have said go for the Blade 450,

As it has significantly improved all components over the Blade 400, that you quite openly advise as your choice of helicopter,

Now you recommend build is best, to my knowledge you have repaired your 400.

Without trying to sound bigheaded I have built T-rex 250, HK-250, Modified and combined two helicopters, repaired and totally re-constructed the Honeybee King 3,

I really do respect your advice.

But with all the thought and improvements that have one into the Blade 450 3D,

And the dedicated components that have gone into the Storm 450. Why would you say you would not buy either?

Trev.

SkyKing51 · Extreme 3D Joined: 07 Dec 2010 Posts: 428

kit are for pros not for begaingers...
kits to a begainger is a chinese puzzle

solentlife · Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 12:00 pm Post subject:

Well .... I have to say that there is one route I would go .....

the RTF route is fine ... as long as a complete check of build is made before flight. Loctiting ... tightening .... checking set-up etc.

Which one ? I have to say that
a) I would not buy any that has plastic head or frame ...
b) Preference would be for Carbon Fibre frame and alloy boom - CF will not bend and deform like alloy frame would in crash, alloy boom is repairable,
c) it would be a clone of the SE V2 or Pro series Trex ...............
d) look for one that has Gyro located UNDER the boom - which is the later Trex set-up to avoid flybar strikes on the gyro case.

So any that fit that list would be my choice ............

There's one candidate you have left out which IMHO deserves a place :

The Hobby King HK450 ............ like my Upforce and most other clones is 100% cross compatible with a Trex.

Last point .......... my RTF Upforce 450 was less than $200 delivered ... CF frame, Alloy head, SE V2 clone, with training gear, pitch gauge, Lipo + balance charger, 6ch Heli programmable radio etc.
It's been flown by better pilots than me - that aint hard !! - who said it's good. I accept that quality may be less than true Align Trex ... but it works .......

Here's my heli line-up (minus the crap 2ch job of course !) ....

The Upforce 450 at back RTF - waiting replacement main blades, then the barebones 450 SE V2 I bought as back-up for less than $40, then the Syma S006 that is still flying nice despite the bad press they get !

Here's the gear i got with the Upforce RTF .... (worth a bit on it's own ..)

then here's the radio (based on the Futaba EX) ... only 1 item missing on it - Dual rates but it has all the rest ... and programmable via LCD screen incl. Expo ...

I agree that neither the clone or the radio is Competition standard ... but for me I don't care as it works for me to learn on ... I'll worry about Competition gear quality later when I can justify the money !! Wink

tombo242 · Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 11:02 pm Post subject:

Hi Trev,

As my Blade 400 is many years old it is hardly surprising that I have had to put some work in on it. What I discovered through the experience was that the original set up although good was not great.

As Solentlife says the whole thing needs stripping and rebuilding, not all metal to metal screws are loctited. I would go even further, the head setup is not always correct either. That I discovered when I checked the tracking to find that it was out. Reason was that the swash was not qute level at high stick and the washout arms did not quite match at midstick. Once the head was correctly setup the tracking was perfect - no adjustment required - as should be. My first head setup took me a full day, now I do it in under an hour. Level swash throughout its travel, washout arms level at midstick, correct collective pitch at all throttle settings and correct cyclic pitch.

Can the factory afford the time to get a perfect setup on each heli? They are working for profit not accuracy. All workers are given a tolerance to work to and an amount of time/money for the job. A swash that goes out of level by 0.5mm at high or low stick is not good enough for me, but it can be for good enough for them.

By the time you have rebuilt and setup your RTF model you will have done a build job but not sourced any components. I found great pleasure in building my EXI 450 with components that I had sourced and since then decided that I would never again buy an RTF model. I would be paying for work which I would have to do over again to be sure of it and that seems to be a terrible waste of money. Now if the Blade 450 came as a "You Build" kit of parts with a decent manual and at a suitably reduced price I would be temped to say "Yes get that one - as long as you consider upgrading the plastic parts as they break!"

Tom.

solentlife · Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 12:43 am Post subject:

but is't the EXI 450 a clone itself ? Whether a kit, ARF or RTF ?

I agree that the factory bench is most likely cliiping on preset link-rods etc. - but that in itself is a better way than a one-off build ... if same tools and dies are making the parts ... after a set-up for initial build - the parts should be a straight meccano / lego job for the bench worker who is doing that job day in day out. I agree that tolerance will be less than we would want and that needs checking.

My Upforce was supplied test flown - well that's what they claimed ... I couldn't disprove it or confirm because I smacked it before an expert had chance to check it over. But i can say that I didn't have to adjust the head links until later after smacks of my own ... and rebuilds.

The barebones kit I bought - all mechanical parts were factory built, ie head, tail ... even the 4 frame sides were bolted up..... with bearing blocks etc. fitted.

The main item that I would change without hesitation on any 450 irrespective of brand, clone, etc., - are the screws used. I bought of eBay a complete bagged set of 12.9 machine screws that are a) hardened and resistant to rounding heads, b) fit hex drivers such that they are captive on driver to insert into those small holes ! c) being hard and good quality can be undone / redone without worry about head or thread wearing out ... they also fit nicely the little smart blue washers they use !
I have since bought another bagful as spares to be in my flight box. I've lost odd screw even when loctited .. or as in Jesus bolt shearing etc.

The 450 is so well covered on ebay for spares at rock bottom peanut prices ... it's a done deal ... you only have to check out seller such as :

chunqianguan .... shop url : http://stores.ebay.co.uk/id=1011092844&ssPageName=STRK:MEFSX:SST

to see how daft it is .... and he's only one of many.

tombo242 · Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 4:51 am Post subject:

T-R-E-V · Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 5:25 am Post subject:

First of all thank you very much for all your thoughts and comments, and please feel free to chip in with your own thoughts and ideas.

SkyKing51 you made me smile with your comment.

Solentlife thank you and congratulations on your very constructive advice, I did not realize until now how knowledgably you are. Thank you also for the time a trouble you went to in your post. I just wanted to express my appreciation.

Finally Tom, one of the most knowledgeable members on this forum we have,

Your comments has give me the most headaches, commonsense says go with what you say, buy a 450 kit build a learn,

Instincts say technology has moved forward since your Blade 400,

I have decided to go with ....................... the storm 450 carbon fibre premium edition,

Take Solentlife advice by doing a complete check before flying. Tom I would ask you to reconsider this helicopter by checking this link,

http://www.helipal.com/storm-450-carbon-fiber-edition.html

Trev.

sbobby · Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 7:44 am Post subject:

I would go for a Trex 450 clone kit and build it myself as solentlife and tombo suggested. I got a HK450 and very happy with it.
- By the look at it, I think Storm is very similar to Trex 450. Not sure about parts compatibility. Before you buy, please make a price comparison the following parts (I break them in most flights) between Storm and Trex clone : main blade, main shaft, feathering shaft, tail boom, tail shaft. Storm is almost 3 times more expensive.

- From your signature, it looks like you may have already a transmitter, if it is a good tx like dx6i, why do you waste money to get another one from the Storm kit.

solentlife · Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 1:22 pm Post subject:

mmmmmmmmmmmm Thanks for the compliment ... but in truth - I am still learning to fly my 450. I am lucky if I keep it air for more than a few minutes or so.

I may not be able to fly it well - but I can build / repair them !!

I live in a country that is extremely poor in terms of Hobby Shops - I have to search online for all my parts. That is why I have a lot of info about where to get them.... versions etc. We have 2 shops in all Latvia and they are in Riga - 3 hrs drive from me. Prices are not attractive enough even with over counter availability to make me change from online sourcing.

I also study my subject to get best value out of it - I work hard for my money and there are many calls on the little I get. I am rebuilding my house in Latvia ... have a yacht and other boats to maintain ... so every penny is carefully spent. My work is such that when I go home from an assignement - I am home completely. I do not work 9-5 like most. I read as many reviews / forums as I can ... filtering out the masses of dross that inevitably gets in to them.

My thoughts are to go with a HK450 or the Titan - as direct copies of the Trex 450 ... as I suggested earlier - staying with the SE V2 or Pro copy is much less painful in terms of spare parts and costs. But I do not say they are quality - they are working models and IMHO are good for learners and intermediates. Serious 3D / precision work requires better quality but a lot more money !
I look at the Storm and I don't see a Trex direct clone there .. so would be concerned about costs to repair and availability.

I think all of us would love to afford a genuine Align Trex ... but that is out of my reach. The funny thing is the Align may in itself be a clone derivative of the Thunder Tiger helis ... which one was first ?

Interesting topic !!

Cheers
Nigel

T-R-E-V · Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 1:51 pm Post subject:

Thank you sbobby and solentlife, I don’t think we ever stop learning,

To tell you the truth I am not a fan of the HK kits, there prices are unbelievable,

I brought a HK-250 Kit screws would break, head and tail binding, main shaft bearing problems, all can be corrected,

But when I brought the T-rex 250 kit, wow what a difference, everything just fitted perfect due to the tight cnc tolerances.

But good points about spare parts, The Storm 450 is not compatible with T-Rex unfortunately,

But believe it is with the Blade 400.

Trev.

tombo242 · Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 11:26 pm Post subject:

Wonderful sales patter on that link Trev, couldn't help noticing the tremendous drop in price and wondered how they could do that, or why they had to!

It's worth looking at Jerrys' comments regarding it. (Last on this link)

Doesn't sound good like the "Sales Patter" does to me, but I do not doubt his honesty. When something sounds too good to be true, it usually is! And, as he says, you can build a quality heli cheaper than the hiped up Storm.

Tom.

T-R-E-V · Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 1:46 am Post subject:

Wow Tom not only sarcastic but very suspicions,

This was not a sales patter, more a request for help, hence the title of this post.

I gave you a link to show the statistics and components used in this New Storm 450;

You gave me a link in reference to Jerry’s comments.

He starts of saying he doesn’t know anything about the HM60, and obviously knows nothing about the storm either, as PE stands for Premium Edition not Plastic Edition,

He then says the Gyro is a knock off of the HK401 the only similarities are the Operation Current and voltage.

Not sure where he is getting the information from, and finally the transmitter he is referring to is from the old Storm. Not the New one.

But it’s ok this is just Jerry opinion.

Trev.

tombo242 · Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 2:34 am Post subject:

Sorry if you got me wrong Trev, no sarcasm was ever intended, but I am suspicious by nature. I refered only to the text on the link NOT anything to do with your posts' text.

The link did read like "Sales Patter" and I always take the manufactures and sales peoples' reports for what they are SALES. No-one will ever convince me that these people are not there to make money. If they don't sell they go broke. Their stock must be made to look the best or they're dead! Jerry was an independant and did not stand to win or loose. He does say that it is only his opinion. So he was wrong about the Tx. His post was dated Nov 2010.

I can only hope that the new Storm 450 is better than the original - but the price being reduced from $699 USD to $379 USD makes me wonder why. This is a big cut into the sales margin. No-one in their right mind sells at a loss. I never did when I ran my business, but sometimes you have to clear unsold stock.

I'd still prefer to build - especially with your experience with the 250s.

Tom.